STAMPBOARDS - Postage Stamp Chat Board and Stamp Forum

First of all i would like to explain to everyone that I am quite dumb when it comes to stamps, but i am learning off of all the expert replies I am getting, so I would like to thank those whom reply before they do.

I bought a bag full of stamps (about 4KG) from a antique dealer and I am trying to sort a collection out for my son so later on in life he will have a head start, and not be a pizza boy like myself.

I read on the internet that it is better to invest in stamps then it is banks and to be honest I have no money, Anyway thats another story.

What I have is a inverted jenny, I am quite sure it is not real as i am not that lucky, but i would like confirmation and information how i could tell that it is unreal for future.

I also have found a envelope in my bag with some stamps on it but i don't know what scott numbers they are and their worth so i was wondering if anyone can find it in their heart to help.

Lastly I have a load of stamps to sort through and I have just bought Ezstamp USA and GB on ebay to stop asking everyone all of the scott numbers, is it a good program for a stamp learner, and is it worth it?

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The EZStamp programs are great, but they're intended to be inventory programs. Not normally for the beginner.

I would suggest you check out some basic general catalogues. In your part of the world, most would use the Gibbons "Stamps of the World" catalogues.

You could try your local library see if they had a set. At this stage, you are probably not concerned with the very latest prices (actually, most of are not, because they don't move much amongst the cheaper items). So, if you find these catalogues helpful (and you will, if you want to get into the hobby at all) you could buy a set for home use. An older set would be far less costly than the current release. The prices may be out of date, but the information will be accurate for the vast majority of stamps listed.

If referring to basic cataloges doesn't help, you can always ask here.

Good luck!

re: the inverted Jenny

I just did a quick search on google and of the 100 printed - around 93% have been accounted for. So a 7% chance yours could be one of the missing ones

Also I did read that every one of these 100 stamps has the pane postion number written on the back of the stamp. Which yours doesn't show

Either way I think it's a great thing to have, even if just for fun.

I'm not an expert , only passing on what I have read, and others may have more advice for you to ID your stamp.
Or you could send it off somewhere to be expertised ??

Cheers,
Skippy

Skippy wrote: Or you could send it off somewhere to be expertised ??

Cheers,
Skippy

*laughs* If I had the money I would, I bought the bag for £4 just looking for a dream I suppose,but it is interesting finding out the knowledge of it all.

Willis: I really can't see the Jenny well enough from the scan you posted, but I dare say it isn't real (but you never know!) The most common way of "faking" them is to cut the center from a stamp and remount it upside down.

People are quite good at this, and the only way to make sure of this that I know of is to soak the stamp (it will come apart) which isn't a good idea if the gum is still there! Feel it very carefully and see if it seem slightly thicker in the center part.

Perhaps you could post a larger scan?

jumet wrote:Willis:
Perhaps you could post a larger scan?

I hope thats large enough,thanks for looking, also I know this stamp isn't put together,it's flat as a pancake with a shiny back as if it hasn't been stuck onto a envelope. If its a fake (as we all want it not to be) its a good one, I can assure you this stamp isn't 2 stamps put together. I have ran my fingers across it and it is definitely flat.

Hope that helps

Question..... Should I soak it?

Does it have a watermark ?

I'm guessing the original was printed on watermarked paper.

There are reproductions for sale on ebay, but they all have COPY or REPRODUCTION clearly marked on the back.

Skippy

willis8732 wrote:
Question..... Should I soak it?

I wouldn't, the valuable ones are mint with gum. Soaking will wash off the gum.

Skippy

Skippy wrote:Does it have a watermark ?

I'm guessing the original was printed on watermarked paper.

There are reproductions for sale on ebay, but they all have COPY or REPRODUCTION clearly marked on the back.

Skippy

I cannot see a watermark Skippy, I have put it up to my pc (white screen ) and don't see one. Should it have one? Whats it look like?

willis8732 wrote:
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great scan !
I wonder if that is a small number 2 on the back ?
Maybe wishfull thinking on my part

Having never seen the back of an inverted Jenny I don't know what the position numbers are supposed to look like.

Hopefully someone who knows all about them will pop in for a look in the next few days. There are usually more members logged on at night and on the weekends too.

Skippy

When I saw the tiny photos I just assumed this was a cheap 20c type reprint/fake as often seen on ebay etc.

Now that willis8732 has fixed the images to be bigger size, I am not so sure it is so easily dismissed as fake.

The one thing that screams "caution" to me are the long perfs on right that are NOT seen on the many genuines I have seen. Might be a straight edge re-perf of course.

However the print job looks good, and the back looks OK too at first glance.

Glen

Skippy wrote:
great scan !
I wonder if that is a small number 2 on the back ?
Maybe wishfull thinking on my part

Skippy

Lol thats fluff, but I believe glen stephens may know he has already sold one! and he comes on these forums, I have read a few of his posts lets hope he and others see this and reply.

Speak of the devil lol, thanks for looking I was just googling and noticed you have a site. Lets face it ppl my luck isn't that good, I cant afford to get it checked anyways........What do I do lol

Below are genuine Jenny's from my archive.

The side perfs scream "re-perf" to me, but as a decent chunk of the sheet were straight edges on 1 or 2 adjoining sides, that is not too hard to digest.

Unless willis8732 is a dab hand at photoshop etc, it does look pretty good on first inspection.

One single below sold for about $US1 million very recently, and as we know from my current column, the block is a $A4 million type piece:

https://www.glenstephens.com/snjanuary09.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it is real could I easily sell it?

P.s I can assure you that this is the actual scan and not touched, I scanned at 1200dpi on my printer dx8450 as I know people on here work on the detail of stamps.And everything i have said is true, I just wish i knew for sure.

Sorry, the Jenny is fake. As Skippy noted, all of them were annotated on the back with the sheet position number before it was broken up. The gum is all wrong as well.

OttawaMike wrote:Sorry, the Jenny is fake. As Skippy noted, all of them were annotated on the back with the sheet position number before it was broken up. The gum is all wrong as well.

Questions;

What if one wasn't annotated? everyone knows hows books change?

Why is Gum wrong?

I have looked at Glens real ones and it overlays perfect.

P.s the scan of back isn't true to what it looks like,it is showing pale but its not,it's more yellow and shiny

Sorry to quiz but trying to learn too

here are a few links where they discuss the position numbers

http://www.philatelictidbits.com/rare-stamps/missing-inverted-jenny-stamp-found.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://forums.delphiforums.com/stamps/messages?msg=27996.1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still haven't found any info or pictures of what the numbers are supposed to look like, or if they could be rubbed off (were they done in pencil ?)

Skippy

Skippy wrote: Still haven't found any info or pictures of what the numbers are supposed to look like, or if they could be rubbed off (were they done in pencil ?)

Skippy

Thanks skippy

Me either, its hard to find anything on what the back looks like

I can't recall offhand what was used to annotate the back of the stamps. None were missed - it was done before the sheet was broken up. These errors were well known from the very start, and sold at high prices immediately. Nobody with the wherewithall to buy one of these would have dared to touch the back.

The chances of this being real are far less than the odds of winning the lottery, every week, for the rest of your life......without ever buying a ticket.

OttawaMike wrote:Sorry, the Jenny is fake. As Skippy noted, all of them were annotated on the back with the sheet position number before it was broken up. The gum is all wrong as well.

IIRC that was done lightly in pencil.

There is a superb book showing EVERY Jenny stamp, so a US specialist will be able to sort this puzzle out pretty fast I'd say.

Yes, the gum should of course be much more 'honeyed' with some crazing, but that scan might also be badly made .. who knows?

I have just taken another scan

here is the better color of the back

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That is pretty much exactly the colour the gum should be.

Glen

[Yes, the gum should of course be much more 'honeyed' with some crazing, but that scan might also be badly made .. who knows?

When you say "honeyed" do you mean shiny with hairline cracks? (if so it is) scan shows true color not the shine (don't know why)

Sorry for my stupidity,but i am new to all this.

There is a picture of the back of an Inverted Jenny stamp (position 70) on this link.

http://www.arago.si.edu/index.asp?con=2&cmd=1&id=157179&img=2&pg=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still doesn't show the position number, just someone's scribble .... so they weren't all marked permanently ?
I also saw somewhere they were printed on UNwatermarked paper.

Skippy

Take a look at the blue of the inverted centre vignette, there are blue spots OVER the red frame (near the "U.S." and the "GE" of Postage). The gum looks pretty good as well. This isn't a Photoshop fake IMHO

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Skippy wrote:

Still doesn't show the position number, just someone's scribble .... so they weren't all marked permanently ?

That is a expert signature Skippy.

For what it's worth...a reference was made earlier to checking for a watermark. If there IS a watermark on the stamp in question, it's definitely a fake as this issue is unwatermarked.

The U.S. stopped using watermarks for postage stamps a couple of years before issuing any airmail stamps, of which the "Inverted Jenny" is one of the first.

Ok....... So if I am to get this checked who do i send it to and how much does it cost?

And there is definitely no watermark on it.

I have a idea, for the more experienced one's my boy has a toy called the eyeclops what zooms in at 100% I will try to take some pictures close up and put on here.

For the more experienced ones,where on the scan do you need to see closeup?

There has been a reply to the forum linked to in previous posts

http://forums.delphiforums.com/stamps/messages?msg=27996.1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
quote:
It does not plate to any position for which an image exists. The centering does not seem possible for any of the four positions for which no record exists. Therefore it is almost certain to be a fake. Some exceptionally dangerous fakes have been made with cutouts of the vignette inserted upside down to resemble genuine inverts.

Two of the stolen McCoys that belong to APRL still have not been recovered, so I examine every new report carefully.end quote:

reading that it seems it's not worth paying someone to tell you it's fake

But I would personally show it to someone .... maybe a philatelic type museum or stamp dealer will have a look and advise you for free, if you take it in - in person.

Lots of dealers at Stampex in the UK (London Feb)
thread about it here http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Skippy

Maybe you could compare it to the fake you bought off ebay on the 4th of January.

This would be a start at least.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200294635024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

N.B. This is not the same stamp as shown above

The Pom wrote:Maybe you could compare it to the fake you bought off ebay on the 4th of January.

This would be a start at least.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200294635024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

N.B. This is not the same stamp as shown above

I have done that and it isn't even close, I know you probably think this is a scam but its not i can provide proof of what I got from the antique dealer

Scan number 2

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p.s if this is anyones stamp i am sure they'll claim it.

Also this is not funny no more i bought the lot in good faith, now i have a stolen stamp?

This is definitely a way to put someone off a new hobby

From what I have read The Mcoys were stolen in 1955. It was a block of 4 on display so they know exactly what they look like from the perfs and centering.

Two have been found (in 1977 & 1982 I think) and two are still missing.

The expert in the other forum says your one doesn't match the stolen ones.

There are still 4, from the original 100, un-accounted for (which have no records or photos taken) and have been lost in time and are presumed destroyed or still sitting in deceased collections and forgotten.

The expert doubts yours matches the perfs and centering of those (??? I don't understand why not)

That's the way I read it anyway.

Skippy

Ok...Just for my own piece of mind I quickly wet the front of the stamp and I ran my finger across it to see whether it was 2 stamps.And it is 100% one stamp only...

I think i bought around 200,000 stamps and that is the only jenny in it,all i wanted was the £4 back that i paid for it all, i think i have stamps from over 30 country's in it all and I am having trouble sorting them out.
I list them in 2 catagorys (shiny and un-shiny, funny I know)And I am now in process of separating into country's and pricing them.

Just to show everyone i am being as honest as i can i am listing here some others as proof,I am not on a scam. And don't want stolen goods in my property.

Can expert replies please be 100% as this is frustrating sitting on something that could be real and worth a mint.
I have put some more unshiney ones below what i got in the lot but if i was to do this on all scans i would be here all day (about 500 full scans ) I know the eire one has a watermark of a lowercase "e"<-- like this one i have 5 of these but only 2 have watermark. These are just some i am researching.
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Can someone tell me what the dimensions should be? I will measure it.

Amazing

At least half the stamps in that scan are damaged - folded or missing corners, perf damage, grubby surfaces...

...and in the middle of it all was this pristine, clean, untoned, unhinged undamaged Inverted Jenny.

Some guys have all the luck

gavin-h wrote:Amazing

At least half the stamps in that scan are damaged - folded or missing corners, perf damage, grubby surfaces...

...and in the middle of it all was this pristine, clean, untoned, unhinged undamaged Inverted Jenny.

Some guys have all the luck

No not at all they are not all grubby. I just pulled them out my un-shiney pot. Here is a couple what are nice stamps, and i have alot more,but i shouldn't have to prove myself on whether all this is a lie.
Me finding a stamp worth £50 is a dream let alone a rare one.
This one below has gum and looks good. The gum is almost the same as the jenny but the jenny gum is not as shiny as this pair.
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the middle 2 have gum too .I don't know what they are

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The 12pf red has a folded or ripped top right corner, though...

gavin-h wrote:The 12pf red has a folded or ripped top right corner, though...

Yeah it's folded definitely... Look, I am not looking to be criticized on whether i am pulling a scam or not.I simply want help on sorting all these stamp and i want to learn off them.

I am trying to make a decent collection of stamps at minimum cost.If the jenny is a fake it's a fake if not well... so what. I'll still sort out an album for my son as a investment on his future..

All in all i got a bag of stamps for £4 about 4kg,I just wanted to make some money on ebay and provide for my family with the £4 I spent.

I bought the lot from J.W stamps in a back alley of the Barbican in plymouth UK, he isn't a collector of stamps, he just buys and sells,he is a lovely man and gave me a great price. If no one believes me then contact him yourself.

I still have 1000's of stamps to get off envelopes as I think you call it kilo-ware and I have a GB book of every decimal and pre-decimal stamp out of what i have sorted out so far.

I saw a opportunity with this dealer and i snapped his fingers off, blame me?All I know about any of this is that they are old.

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I have just ebayed the stamp,if any of you want it then go for it, I don't honestly know whether it's fake or not,so if you want it then bid on it, I don't have the money to take it anywhere to be checked.Thanks for all the help but to be honest it is spoiling my ideas of a hobby.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Inverted-Jenny-C3a-Fake-or-Not-no-rese ... 240%3A1318" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

well to my untrained eyes....the blue shade lines look different to the scans of the originals......but that's as far as I can comment......best of luck either way

dm57 wrote:well to my untrained eyes....the blue shade lines look different to the scans of the originals......but that's as far as I can comment......best of luck either way

Spotted. The 4 blue shade lines above CE of Cents are shorter and thicker than in the real thing, as far as the scans suggest.

Another star Chris......CONGRATULATIONS !

Dieter

dm57 wrote:well to my untrained eyes....the blue shade lines look different to the scans of the originals......but that's as far as I can comment......best of luck either way

I also note that the number 2's are quite different between left and right, AND the left one has some hard edges where is should be smooth lines (typically the base of the 2) and in the base of the two there is a significate indent on the top.

Also looking at the CENTS lettering, on the legit ones it appears quite sharp, where-as the potential fake is quite wavey along those edges.

This is purely my untrained visual inspection - so no guarantee... but I know my gut feeling would be fake.

As far as fakes go, if it is fake, it still looks pretty good.

Well whatever happens now I am very happy, Somebody is bidding on it. £2.10 for the listing and £4 for the bag, if all goes well that's £2.90 profit which at least gives me my money back so I can enjoy the hobby.

willis8732 wrote:
I bought a bag full of stamps (about 4KG) from a antique dealer and I am trying to sort a collection out for my son so later on in life he will have a head start, and not be a pizza boy like myself.

What I have is a inverted jenny, I am quite sure it is not real as i am not that lucky, but i would like confirmation and information how i could tell that it is unreal for future.

Later becomes this story - in this SAME thread:

willis8732 wrote:
All in all I got a bag of stamps for £4 about 4kg, I just wanted to make some money on ebay and provide for my family with the £4 I spent.

I bought the lot from J.W stamps in a back alley of the Barbican in Plymouth UK, he isn't a collector of stamps, he just buys and sells,he is a lovely man and gave me a great price. If no one believes me then contact him yourself.

I saw a opportunity with this dealer and i snapped his fingers off, blame me? All I know about any of this is that they are old.

First you tell us you bought the million dollar Inverted Jenny stamp in a lot for £4 off an "Antique dealer"

Now you tell us he was a stamp dealer called "J. W. Stamps".

Then you show in another thread a "1d Black" on a "Mulready", and ask us the value. We now know you bought it a few weeks back for 18 quid on ebay:

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380091022003" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We also now know you bought a similar looking forged "Inverted Jenny" Mint for $US15 off an ebay German seller lagygirly 2 weeks back, (shown below) that you had not ever mentioned to us you bought until members here discovered the sale. My guess is the one above you also bought at the same time, from the same ebay seller lagygirly, as they look near identical. (Can someone please email this thread link to lagygirly - she might stop listing this stuff, if she knows it is being discussed, and she is not complying with ebay rules re marking fakes for sale.)

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200294635024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200291049529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A USA expert has confirmed to Admin that the stamp you show above does NOT match any of the known 100 genuine Jenny's, therefore it is certainly a fake.

Two weeks ago you also bought on ebay (as forged) a forged Zurich 1843 cantonal for 5.5 Euro .. so please save us the trouble of later asking us if that too is worth big bucks as you also found it in your "£4 Treasure Sack."

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200292020588" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, and the pair of GB 2d Blue Imperfs you also tell us elsewhere came in the same "£4 wonder bag" you also bought very recently on ebay for 15 quid:

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160240657521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And the GB 1d Lilacs with 14 and 16 dots you got in the "same wonder bag" actually cost you 99 pence on ebay:

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360119289278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, please stop pulling our chains and wasting our time. This is an official warning - your future posts will be watched very carefully by the ever vigilant Moderator Group. Thanks.

Post away on REAL questions, by all means, and become a useful member of this Community is my strong advice. But we have zero tolerance for chain pullers and wind-up merchants, and your membership will cease the next time we see something fanciful posted from you, that does not check out.

The members on this board are far smarter than many give them credit for.

Why am I posting most of this here, and not in a private email to you which is more normal in such cases?

Well because you have linked to THIS discussion thread on your ebay lot, selling the alleged Invert above:

"Here I am selling an Inverted jenny, is it fake?? I don't know"

Baloney.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Inverted-Jenny-C3a-Fake-or-Not-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ280302534337" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seeing you paid I am sure US$15 (or less) for it, along with the other fake you bought from Germany, that looks nearly the same (from a seller who ever offers USED Inverted Jenny's which of course do not exist) , some sucker has already bid 10 quid with you, so you are in front already on the exchange rates.

However I do not like to see ebay bunnies being conned, especially when THIS board is used as the "proof guarantee" that the stamp might just be possibly OK. So when they read the link you offer them, they will see this post.

And do be careful .. someone reading this as per your ebay link, might get justifiably angry (like your 10 quid bidder!) and report you to ebay for breaching their OWN VERY clear rules ebay NOW have re stamp forgeries, which say:

------------------------

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-stamps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Selling of Stamps

eBay does not permit the sale of stamps that are fraudulent or improperly described. Sellers who knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity of a stamp, alterations to the stamp, or other information that might have a material impact on the stamp's value may be reported to the American Philatelic Society.

If the stamp is a forgery, fake, reproduction or facsimile:

it must be clearly and indelibly marked as such

a clear image of this mark must be included

it must be clearly stated in the title and/or description

If unsure of the origin or authenticity of the stamp, please state this clearly in the listing. Do not sell an item "As Is" regarding its authenticity.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

---------------------

As well as this similar but different worded rule

---------------------

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Counterfeit Currency and Stamps

All forged stamps, facsimiles, and reproductions may be listed but need to be clearly and indelibly marked as such on either the front or back of the stamp. See "Additional Information" for more details.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of ebay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

--------------------

Any seller on ebay listing stamps or overprints or perfins that are forged must indelibly mark them thus on front and/or back.

Offering them without such markings can see the sellers removed in hours, if reported citing the above two VERY clear ebay policies.

Maybe you should research better and actually take a trip down the barbican,the reason i bought these items on ebay was to check against what I have yes I bought a fake jenny and also.

Make your assumptions on the stamp but dont direct abuse towards me it's rude.

But don't accuse me of pulling your chains, or feeding bull I am not.Its just a bloody stamp. I'll be happy to show you loads more what I got . I asked for help not abuse over an old piece of paper.

Only reason I put it up for sale is cause everyones making a big deal, all I wanted to know was if it was a fake or not. And now I have you jumping down my throat... Real nice... What a lovely hobby you have.

In my first post you'll see that it was envelope I was interested in too but no one even glanced at that. So don't tell me i put it up to be used on ebay because i never.

I have cancelled all bids on ebay, I am not going to sell something and rip ppl off thats not me, i see you love spoiling ppl's newly started hobby Mr Admin. *claps* thanks for your wonderful help,what an example.

Let's see... in the listing you claim "but it has experts all over it" and yet you've only asked us in this forum and not yet had ANY expert actually look at the physical stamp.

And you are asking bidders to read here, as if we are offering any more validity than any member of the public could offer. Don't make us a party to your actions.

You know it's a fake, otherwise you would pony up the money and get it verified... so why infer that it could be anything but fake?

So... no one here is a expert?...... And I thought i would save myself a few quid ...closest experts to me are london,i have only been collecting about 3 weeks.All i understand of the stamps I have is they are pre 1960 (alot of google checking)To me they are just old pictures
And i thought or consider glen to be an expert as he has a few....

What I suggest is this. I have no money to get this checked on whether it is or isn't,BUT if there is a expert out there who is willing to check this I will post it to them recorded delivery.

I don't appreciate being called a liar everything i have said is true.


Would that solve all these issues?